Treasure Crocker: If you are someone that has just formed a passion for what it is, whatever you want to do, just continue with it and seek out certain opportunities.

James Lacey: Meet Treasure Crocker, founder and CEO of Pawstries, the all-natural gluten-free pet treat brand for dogs and cats with special dietary needs. Join us in the Fulfilled Podcast to hear her journey of building Pawstries.

Treasure Crocker: So Pawstries is an all-natural and gluten-free pet treat company dedicated to providing treats for both dogs and cats. For our dogs, they're actually human-grade, so you can try a treat if you want to. We have peanut butter, and banana, venison, and bison. And for our cats, we have chicken, salmon, and tuna, and they are catnip-infused.

James Lacey: Wow. That's awesome. So how do you even begin stepping into, you know, like what was the moment that you're like, “I have an idea. I want to start creating snacks for dogs and cats”, it's such an awesome industry. I feel like that must be such a fun industry to be in because who doesn't love just like something focused on their pets, but yeah. How does that even begin?

Treasure Crocker: Yeah. So what's funny is I am a vet tech by trade. So an animal nurse and my eldest dog, I have two dogs, they're actually father and son. So a few years ago, my eldest suffered from an allergic reaction to store-bought treats. My dogs are actually allergic to gluten and chicken, which is why we have venison and bison as an alternative protein and all of our treats are gluten-free. 

Not really being able to trust, you know, any products on the shelves in the store, even if it said that it was chicken-free or gluten-free, I turned the packaging around and it has chicken fillers or all these artificial preservatives, colors and fillers and all of those things.

So I was like, I can't really, you know, trust what I'm giving my pet, even though it's on the label, it says one thing, but then the ingredients on the back says something else. So I just took it into, my own hands and I started making their food and their treats on my own. And because I was working as a vet tech full time at the time, when you talk to clients and just tell them that I'm making treats for my dogs.

And so they would be like, “Oh if it's okay with the vet, can we take some treats home?” So I'll say, sure. No, that's fine. So that kept happening. And so they kept returning saying “Hey, my dogs love the treats. I gave to my neighbor, I gave it to a family member”. I'm just gonna, because he's not gonna..

James Lacey: Oh, my goodness…

Treasure Crocker: This is the baby. So, then they kept coming back and I'm like, if I'm giving you these treats for free, maybe I can make a business out of this. I don't have a business background, my background is in biology. So I was like, okay, if there's a need for it, sure. And I know that there are certain breeds that are prone to certain allergens and things of that nature.

So I figured, why not? And so that was almost six years ago and so here we are.

James Lacey: Wow. That's awesome. Six years, I mean, that's like seasoned. Having to start 2018, is that right? 

Treasure Crocker: November of 2018.

James Lacey: What is the process for somebody that's maybe in like a, in a moment, let's say they started baking goods or something, they realize that everybody is obsessed with them and then they're now, maybe I can make a business out of this.

How do you go from that moment of having something that you realize that maybe people want and actually turning it into a product and a brand that you can sell and scale? I think that for many is a huge gap. And so what would you say to that person that's in that place?

Treasure Crocker: Honestly, just keep, just continue with it. If you have a passion for it and for me, my initial customers were word of mouth, I wasn't really on social media. I didn't really know what I was doing. I still don't know what I'm doing in terms of social media, but we tried, and I started getting introduced to certain events, small business events, farmers markets, things of that nature and what I noticed as because I'm originally from Michigan and I'm based in Atlanta now is that, as far as the pet community and the treat community, you didn't really have anything. So I really was the only 1 at the time and so I used it to my advantage, but then, of course, COVID hit and we had to figure out some things that we weren't really able to be in person and do events anymore.

So then that really took it to, okay, now we have to really be present on social media and show up and say, hey, these are our treats. These are snacks, come on and get them but also to due to the fact that it has almost been 6 years, we've gone through so many different iterations of business, even how we started.

I had so many flavors, more flavors than I do now, even the process of how we made the treats completely different. They look different, our packaging different. Then we're getting ready for a rebrand at the top of next year. So it's a lot of moving parts, but if you are someone that has just formed a passion for what it is, whatever you want to do, just continue with it and, seek out certain opportunities. 

So whether you do have to go to a trade show or a farmer's market, or, any small business, things in your city, wherever you are, I would do that or, just talk to your friends or, people in your community to say, hey, I have this thing, would you be willing to try it or I'll give you a sample and then just go from there.

James Lacey: I love the simplicity of that. That was one of the most simple answers I've heard where it's just yeah, just keep going and pursue it and find the different avenues that work and keep, pursuing them.

That's awesome. Is there any, like six years now being in business prior to that, tech, is there anything that you've learned? You're approaching like a decade in business. Is there anything that you've learned as far as like daily routines or even like daily hacks to stay focused, to stay consistent, that can be a challenge for a lot of people, burnout, or even where to begin. Any advice that you have?

Treasure Crocker: Yeah. I would say, specifically for me, when I left my job full time and I started running Pawstries, I realized going from this structured, nine to five, and then now it's oh, I'm on my own time. I can just do whatever I want. You know what I mean? If I want to sleep and I can't, even though I really can't my body doesn't allow me to sleep in past 7 o'clock, but I had to figure out, okay, how do I still be focused?

How do I still have some form of structure? Because my job, the treats still have to get baked. The job has to still get done and I'm the only one that's doing it at the time. I developed, I am someone that I like to be Zen, so I do yoga and meditation every morning. I also like tea. I also think that my dogs play a role in that because I have to wake up every morning and walk them.

So we walk at least a mile, every morning, we'd be walking about three miles a day, so those little things kept me structured and I would have office days like dedicated office days, and then I would have dedicated baking days. And so that helped me stay on top of everything.

Yeah, I would just figure out what works for you, but just know that at the end of the day, the job still has to get done. So you have to plan accordingly

James Lacey: That's cool. Like structure and planning still playing a big part in just ensuring you're getting the job done, but also finding little, like you said, like you're, you had some level of routine, but also healthy habits by the sound of it. 

Somebody had a similar, I think it was a couple of days ago where it was just get out of the house, actually take a step away from, you know, all of the thinking and go have lunch with friends or something like that. Even small healthy habits like that, might just be 30 minutes can often be so impactful.

Treasure Crocker: It can really make a difference. And I've experienced burnout, even I want to say it was two and a half, three years ago, we took a hiatus because I was like, I'm at my capacity.

And so from there, I had to learn like okay, I have to establish boundaries, not only with myself but for other people. And my phone has been on Do Not Disturb since October of 2021. 

James Lacey: That's a long time. 

Treasure Crocker: And what I mean by that is, you are able to reach me like you're able to call me between the hours of 9 a.m. and 4 59 p.m. Once five o'clock hits, if you're not in my allowed list of contacts, your calls not getting through. I'm not, I don't, it's not, coming through. Even if you try to call back the second time. It's not true. But I just had to learn that I do need time for myself. I can't just be on call for everybody every second of every day.

And so I think that it is also important to establish boundaries, healthy boundaries, as a founder, as someone that is in business. Just to say, hey, outside of this, my workday is done, and if people want to respect that, they can respect it. But that's the line that I'm drawing in the sand.

James Lacey: Yeah, that's powerful. Even thinking about, people with families, et cetera, it can often be a real challenge to find that balance or to just to have the self-control in many ways to just say, no, this is the cutoff point. And yeah, so I like the idea of that. Do Not Disturb unless they're in your allowed list.

Is there anything that really inspires you or motivates you to keep going during the challenging times, which are often inevitable? Oh, wow!

Treasure Crocker: Yeah, so this is Chase. He is actually the reason that I started the company. So this is my little one. Yeah. He's my eldest, but, he's 10 and the baby is eight.

But yeah, it's just, I do this not only for my dogs, but I do it for, other people's pets who may be in a similar situation as I. So my motivating factor are my, I call them my children because I don't have human children. So my dogs are my babies.

James Lacey: That's beautiful. Do you have a favorite quote or piece of advice that you've received over time?

Treasure Crocker: Oh, I'm not really sure if it's a quote. I know it's a saying, I don't really know where it comes from, but the only constant in life is change. And that, I believe in that, because in business and even in life, things are forever changing. And one of, I think something that you have to learn in business is pivoting, because not everything is going to go to plan, every single time.

And so you have to know how to pivot when something kind of hits the fan, right? But the only constant in life has changed. So you have to know how to adapt to those changes, the natural ebb and flow of life, the natural ebb and flow of business.

James Lacey: How do you navigate change? Like, when do you know it's the right time to pivot, and how do you navigate that both in business and maybe in, from a perspective of a founder's life as well?

Treasure Crocker: Honestly, I can't speak for everybody. I can only speak for myself, but I'm very in tune with myself and my decisions and I make a lot of my decisions based on, and I don't want to say this doesn't sound bad, but basically how I feel, it's like my gut feeling, that's how I'm guided.

I'm only making a decision if it feels right to me, if it doesn't feel right, I'm not making it. I'm not putting myself in jeopardy. I'm not putting my company in jeopardy. It has to feel right. It has to make sense. So I think just knowing when you need to make a change and if it makes sense for you, right?

It's like when I moved to Atlanta, it made sense for me to move here because Atlanta is a pet hub. If I was to move to Iowa or, some other places where it's not really the culture for the pet life is it, doesn't make sense. It wouldn't make sense for me to move there.

So just making good decisions, having discernment is a big one, and just believing that, hey, even if things maybe don't work out how you thought they would have, or should have, it probably happened for a reason. I'm a big believer in everything does happen for a reason that nothing is ever a coincidence.

So just, it's okay if you did, we all make mistakes. So it's like, all right, but you have to learn from most mistakes that you make and do better going forward.

James Lacey: Is there anything, yeah, any extra little sauce that you would put on top to tell somebody is like, they're just completely regretting the decision they just made. I just heard the business and they're questioning what to do.

Treasure Crocker: Yeah. I would just say, just know that you're like, you're not alone. Like we all, if it happens to all of us at some point in life. I don't really think that there is a, I don't there's not a rule book to life. Not really.

We're all on our own journey. We're all trying to figure it out. And I think it's ultimately just at the end of the day, doing what's best for you and doing what's best for your company. Because for me, I'm the only one, I started it by myself. I do have a small team of people that do help me now, but it's I am still the decision-maker.

I'm still the deciding factor of everything that happens with the business, it has to work. But I think I do find solace in knowing that I'm not the only one that has tried this and maybe didn't work out or, I tried it and it did work. And so now, maybe I have to be pointed in another direction because I want to do other things as an entrepreneur.

You have so many different business ideas in your mind. So I was like, okay, let's just maybe focus on this one, and then we can get this one together and then we can focus on that. But yeah, I think just, know, and then I think also having friends and other colleagues in the industry does help out a lot because oh, you know what I'm going through, you know what I mean?

So it's, really good to be surrounded by like-minded people and people who can resonate with where you are in life, what you're doing, and even you know, have a network of people that can maybe not elevate is cool, but guide you when you do feel like you maybe are lost or you've hit a wall or you're stuck.

James Lacey: So it's interesting. One of the things I wanted to ask you was kind of leadership can get lonely at times. You're in a founder role, CEO, you're leading people, you're leading business and somewhat, it can be somewhat isolating, I think. And I was going to ask you, how do you manage that? How do you stay connected to the outside world?

Having people to lean on that understand what you're going through. I guess allows you to not stay so, so isolated.

Treasure Crocker: Yeah. The journey of entrepreneurship can be rather lonely at times especially if, maybe you're no longer working a full-time job or maybe all you have is your savings or maybe, the only revenue that you're making is what the company is making.

And so you have to be very diligent. I'm like, hey, okay, maybe I might not be able to go with my friends or, splurge on whatever you are, whatever you want to do, you like, you have to be like, okay, my business still has to run, right? So I have to make some sacrifices. But just once again, finding people who understand, just having that community has been really important to me because they're, almost like chosen family to me and so that's, really big to just make those connections and have friends.

James Lacey: Is there an element of faith that goes into your business decisions? I know you talked about how closely you listen to how you feel about a decision or your gut feeling, or, and I know people will call that different things as well. Is that in itself, an aspect of faith for you as you're making decisions?

Treasure Crocker: Yeah, I'm a spiritual person. There have been times where it's like, Ooh, I gotta bet on myself, and I have to believe that it's going to work. I have to have faith that it's going to work. And maybe if it doesn't work the way that I want it to work, it might work the way that I needed it to. And not unknowingly, unbeknownst to me, it worked the way in which I needed it to, might not work I wanted it to, but it worked out regardless.

Yeah, I just think that having faith in yourself, having faith in your products, having faith in your passions is for me, at least is what drives me. And that would, that's what helps not to make me give up at the end of the day, there've been times I'm like, I want to still do this? But then once again, I have to remind myself, I'm not just doing it for me, even as representation goes a factor in that or, cause I have a younger sister and she looks up to me a lot.

And so it's, hey, I'm just, I'm not just doing this for myself. I am making some form of representation and an underrepresented industry. So we're just here.

James Lacey: I'm just here. That's a pretty bold statement. I'm just here. Pawstries, that it's a pretty cool name as well, by the way, is that a play on pastries?

Treasure Crocker: Yes. So it's like pastries for dogs or cats, like the paw, this isn't a paw, but I can show you one, but he's currently sleeping. Yeah, it's a play. It used to be Treasure’s Pawstries, like my name, but then that became a mouthful. So we dropped the Treasure’s and now it's just Pawstries.

James Lacey: Is there like a huge, crazy, big-scale vision dream that you have? I like this is just like a random question I’m like asking because it like sometimes pulls things out of people that sounds wild or it's super simple and both are fine. But, yeah, is there anything that you would say to that?

Treasure Crocker: There are certain aspects to the company that we will eventually add. People always ask me, what about pet food? It's in the works. It takes a lot, a lot of planning, to do as it's just in the, there's a lot of moving parts, but, yeah, it's, Eventually, we will have more pet products and then outside of that, even as a personal thing, I love tea, I love plants and I love pottery.

So I want to open up a shop for that because here in America, we don't really prioritize tea, we prioritize coffee. And I'm a tea drinker. I'm not, I am a tea girly. But I was like, I want to, I wanted to have a dedicated space, for people that love tea like me. So that's surrounded by plants and pottery and music.

James Lacey: Beautiful. I actually, I had a conversation with somebody, I think two days ago, she works in a specialty, she actually manages a specialty coffee shop here in Orlando. And she was saying about how she wishes those, tea places that would be so focused upon some coffee shops are, and because that just doesn't exist over here so much.

And yep, I think it sounds like there might be a need for it. Yeah, is there anything specific that you're learning at the moment?

Treasure Crocker: Spanish

James Lacey: Really? You're learning Spanish?

Treasure Crocker: Yeah, I am. I don't plan on living in the United States of America for the rest of my life and I would really love to purchase some land in Mexico, so I can, I have this whole, I want to have a homestead and have a little, not really a farm, just, yeah. 

I'm learning Spanish. That's what I'm learning. In business, currently right now, I am learning how to properly delegate my task. And, I'm also seeking for a COO to the company.

So having a lot of meetings and things of that nature and just learning all of the business aspects of that. Even what that looks like, what that entails, because it's just been me this entire time. So having to share those responsibilities, share percentage of the company, equity, all of that is just, it's like, okay, like that's, a different ball game. I knew eventually that I would have these conversations and thoughts in my head, but now it's just, it's real. It's right here in front of me. 

James Lacey: That's a lot. I love the homestead. My wife is Spanish, like from Spain, Spanish. And yeah, I've always wanted to do a similar thing in Spain, but Mexico is glorious. 

Is there, I don't know if you've answered this, but is there anything you're super excited about either in business or, in life? Like anything that you're really excited about that is coming soon or that you're working on or just over the next kind of years of your life?

Treasure Crocker: Yeah. The most immediate thing that I'm excited about is our rebrand. Pawstries is getting a new look in as far as packaging, logos, typography, brand voice, everything is changing. So the way that Pawstries looks right now is going to look completely different in a few months. I'm really looking forward to that because it's, I want to say we've spent almost 7 months, 6 or 7 months trying to get everything together.

And then we have some upcoming partnerships that I'm really excited about. Can't say too much, but I'm excited about it and then, yeah, I think it’s Fall now, and I am from Michigan, so having to explore, what Georgia has to offer, even though I've been here for a little over a year, really just been focused on building the business down here.

But I think I'm excited about hiking, I'm an outdoorsy girl, so I’m like seeing all of the trails and things that Atlanta or Georgia has. I'm excited for that. I'm excited for Fall, I'm just, I'm excited to see where Pawstries will be in even three months, because we do have some things just it's unfolding, so really looking forward to that.

James Lacey:  That is exciting.

Treasure Crocker: I'm excited for how people are going to react to the new look because a small handful of people have seen what the new packaging and branding will look like. So I'm excited to see everyone else's response and reactions.

James Lacey: That'll be fun. Is there something you would say to the person that has no idea what Pawstries is, but they love their pets, they love their dogs, they love their cat, and they're looking for something new, like a better snack. What would you say to that person as far as, just your heart, and saying hey, check these out?

Treasure Crocker: I would probably, I have this whole spiel whenever I'm at like events and things of that nature, but if I'm in public, I would probably have some treats on me and I would just ask, Hey, are you in the market for some new treats? And I'll take a treat out and I'll eat it myself.

And I'll just say, hey, you can eat this as if your dog. Who wouldn't want that? And I actually have testimonials. I started a series called “Try a Treat where I get both dog owners and their pets to try a treat. And I've gotten some feedback from that. So it's hey, if you don't believe me, I got, I had the video proof to show you.

It's like try a treat, it's okay. So yeah, I would celebrate that like a treat for you and a treat for your friend.

James Lacey: That's good. I like it. I think the pet industry has come a long way by the sounds of it. We’ve spoken to a few of the pet brands and, just the care that is going behind companies like yours and giving better health to their pets as the reason why you started the company.

And yeah, so it's just nice to know that, no longer are they are people only producing things that are probably hurting people's pets.

Treasure Crocker: Yeah, the thing is that a lot of people, majority of people, especially for millennials, I'm not sure how old you are, but for us as millennials, they feed their pets the same, like they want their pet to have the same diet as themselves.

And so if you're relatively healthy, you want your pet to also have healthy food and snacks. And they, if you have the disposable income, or if you are willing to do that, you invest in a healthier diet for your pet, which is very important because a lot of your pet’s ailments are attributed to their diet.

Some people don't know that, so it's hey, if you feed your pet a healthy diet can last a little bit longer. They won't have as many ailments as, because pets have the same ailments as we do. So cancer, diabetes, heart failure, arthritis, all these things, so it's just you want to be healthy as an individual, why not want the same for your pets?

James Lacey: Wow, that's so interesting. I hadn't thought about that before. Just like the importance of their nutrition. It really is an equivalent to the importance of our nutrition. That makes sense and hence the importance of healthy snacks.

Treasure Crocker: Yes.

James Lacey: We have a kind of key question that we love asking at the end, and I'm just going to throw it out there now, and then I'd love to hear if there's any other things that you'd want to share? And then also of course, like where people could follow along with Pawstries and yourself. The kind of key question, hence the name of the podcast “Fulfilled” is what does real fulfillment mean to you?

Treasure Crocker: Honestly, I think it's just finding what brings you joy, whatever that is, it's different for everybody. And I think sometimes people confuse the difference between happiness and joyfulness, and there's a difference. The feeling of happy is so fleeting, right? You can be happy one moment and sad the next.

But I think just finding joy in a little bit of everything, changing your perspective. Instead of you saying oh, maybe it's raining today, you can say, hey, actually the grass needs the rain or the flowers needs rain. And so it's all it's just, it's the way in which you look at things.

But in just finding joy in that, you could be having the worst day, but if you change your mind, you're like, no, it actually, it's not that bad. I woke up today, I can't say that for a lot of people. So it's like just, finding those little things, just finding what brings you joy.

If it's just as simple as a cup of tea in the morning, or the fact that your dog is staring at you and he looks so cute. It's little things, but yeah, just, being fulfilled, I think it's just finding joy in the smallest things because feelings are so fleeting.

You never really know, and just not having, I think that really attaching any feeling to really anything, because you can be high one moment and then low the next. Anything can happen to anybody at any given point. So yeah, it's just, it's being, just finding joy in the smallest of things keeps me fulfilled.

James Lacey: That's beautiful.

Treasure Crocker: Yeah.

James Lacey: Yeah, it's so cool that you said that. I spoke to somebody earlier today, and we were speaking about joy and happiness and I actually ended up saying how joy is not happiness. Happiness is not joy. Exactly what you just said. Happiness is fleeting and joy is like a state of being and I love that you connected it to gratitude. I think that is so true. It's like just your perspective can shift so much. That's beautiful. You said you're a tea gal and you, I'm just curious, what's your favorite tea? What type of tea are we talking about?

Treasure Crocker: Oh, if you can see the pantry. So there's, actually, there's a tea shop here. It's called “Just Add Honey”. You can actually make your own blend of teas. yeah, it's really nice. But I like, so I have categories of tea if that makes sense. So I have my tea that gives me energy. So my caffeinated tea, it's usually like some sort of black tea right now.

I think it's a spiced blackberry tea. And then I have my tea for calming, so that's essentially anything that has like lavender, chamomile. I drink a lot of hibiscus tea and then I have my tea for for pain. So I drink a lot of raspberry leaf tea, and then I have my tea when I am like ready to wind down and go to sleep, so the tea that relaxes me. Yeah, so it's, there's, a lot of tea downstairs.

James Lacey: It sounds like, so people need to follow along with Pawstries and Treasure purely for the fact, not purely, but also for the fact of this coming tea shop with beautiful pottery and plants.

Treasure Crocker:  Treasure Crocker:  Yeah

James Lacey: That's cool. Treasure is that I've know I've taken you a little bit longer. Is there anything else that you would like to share with people about yourself about Pawstries and also please let us know where we can follow along.

Treasure Crocker: Yeah, not really about me. Just look out for the rebrand. I'm excited. There are a lot of things that are happening on this side and you can follow along at www.pawstries.com. You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok @Pawstries and then we also do, sell on Amazon. All of our, products are pulled currently because we're waiting for the rebrand to just go ahead and send them new products.

But yeah, subscribe to our newsletter. It keeps you in the know of what's going on and there's like a little spin-the-wheel thing. If you go to our website and you can possibly win a free bag of treats. The percentage of that happening, I don't know, but it can happen. You never know. But even, if you don't, there are, like little discounts and fun things that you can receive. So yeah,

James Lacey: That's awesome. Okay. Go check out pawstries.com and, keep a look at it for that rebrand. Treasure, thank you so much for your time. This was so fun. And yeah, just hearing about you, learning from you and I'm excited to see the rebrand and all to come from yourself and Pawstries.

Thank you so much. That is it for today's episode of Fulfilled podcast. We'll catch you next time.