Chad Kauffman: I'm passionate about our customers. I'm passionate about our employees. 

James Lacey: Chad Kaufman knows firsthand that passion is the key to success. Along with his father, Porter, Chad set out to create an all-in-one litter solution. Join us in this episode, as Chad shares how they built this innovative business and why their commitment to customers and the environment sets them apart.

Chad Kauffman: We manufacture and sell, direct-to-consumer, disposable cat litter boxes. So if you have a cat, you're in an indoor cat specifically, you certainly need a litter box. And so our box is an all-in-one litter box solution. So it's disposable. It comes pre-packaged with a month's worth of cat litter, and it's designed to last for a single cat for a full month, no odor, no mess, and minimal maintenance. And at the end of the month, you can dispose of it or you can recycle the litter box. 

James Lacey: Wow. I, used to have a black cat growing up called Felix in spite. I don't know if you guys had the adverts for Felix or like Felix cat food in the US but that was a big thing in the UK, but yeah, so my, 

Chad Kauffman: I don't think we have that here that I know. 

James Lacey: That was like the biggest cat food there was. And for some reason, the limited creativity I clearly had is the only thing I could think of to call my black cat a little bit the same on the TV was, Felix. But yeah, so firsthand, knowing that problem, that is an incredible solution. How on earth did you decide to get into that?

That's a very specific thing I feel like, to want to create. I've seen, a little bit of the story on the website, but for other people listening, what leads you to build a solution? Is it experiencing the problem? How did you get there?

Chad Kauffman: Yeah, good question, so I'm an entrepreneur. I've started many, many companies and, I was looking to do another startup venture and looking for a multi billion dollar industry, that I could create reoccurring revenue around. And as I began looking at. I was really industry agnostic, right? Like I didn't really care.

I just wanted something that I could, do something better than maybe what was already being done. And my dad, who's the co-founder of the company with me, came to me with this idea of a disposable cat litter box. And, I thought it was a horrible idea at first because I couldn't figure out how you could ship heavy cat litter economically and also make a box that was disposable, but would also last for an entire month.

And I saw a lot of challenges there and I knew that we probably would need to make it out of corrugate, which would be, paper-based. And I didn't know how I could, keep the urine, from leaking through a corrugate box, and do that, that it would withstand a cat for an entire month.

And so initially I said it was a horrible idea. And then I began to just start thinking about how could you do this and started doing some prototypes and testing on some local cat owners and did, reiterated and new version, new version, new version, after each failure until we developed a product that worked extremely well.

And, now fast forward, launched the company in 2018, fast forward to today, we're on our fourth generation of our box. And we have four utility patents now issued on our box and we have some real cool technology that is now integrated into the box to make it. I mean or box could last 6 months if you wanted to, have just refilling it with litters.

So they're bulletproof. Yeah, they're really good solution.

James Lacey: Constantly innovating at this point. Or is it do you think that's going to get to a place? You said you started out by looking at, like, how can we make something last for a month? And now you're saying, we can keep repurposing this for 6 months. That's a huge change in not that much time. Is that like constant innovation going to move forward or?

Chad Kauffman: Yeah, we're still making some innovation on our boxes, but not really around the technology itself. We've perfected the urine proofing of the product, now we're just making some design changes.

We're looking at another entrance to the box where we only have one entrance. Now we may add an additional side entrance so people could reposition the boxes in their homes to best fit how they're using the product. But along the way, as we've created these different generation boxes. We've had to build new, manufacturing equipment to do those boxes.

So, I feel like we're in a really good place with where we are right now and the automation of our manufacturing process. 

James Lacey: I don't know if you were in limbo prior to just starting Kitty Poo Club, but, you said you didn't mind the industry. You're just interested in, building something. 

Chad Kauffman: Yeah.

James Lacey: What would you say to somebody that isn't an experienced entrepreneur or has experienced success and looking for the next venture?

Chad Kauffman: Yeah. Yeah. Good question. So I've said this to, spoken to many groups and I say this actually quite often is, I think if you're an entrepreneur, it's in your blood to start businesses.

And really, if you think about business, it's truest sense, it's really all the same. You just have different products and services, right? So the product and service may be different in every business that you go into, but in terms of how businesses function, we all have finance and accounting, marketing, operations, manufacturing, salespeople, regardless of what you're selling, whether it's a product or a service, as you begin to scale and you get big enough, you have some, all of those areas are functioning in most businesses and so they may be, a few people that are doing 'em all.

And maybe when you're starting a business, you're doing 'em all. But eventually you start to hire people out that are very skilled in these individual areas. And then it starts to begin to get multiple people in each of those departments and begin to scale up. For me, I don't, really concern myself with any of that because I know and understand how to start and run a business.

I'm looking at where is there opportunity to do something that is better than what's being done right now. So it's that problem solution, right? I never like to get into businesses where there's not a problem. There has to be a problem that you're looking to solve and to be able to do it better than what's being offered to

James Lacey: That's great.

Chad Kauffman: And that's how Kitty Poo Club came to be, right? yeah

James Lacey: No, it's pretty much very similar thread to what I've heard from a few people spoken to recently. Things are birthed out of experiencing a problem firsthand most often. And yes, it's something that people are passionate about, but I think, especially in the case of yourself, as you become a serial entrepreneur, seasoned, it's maybe over time becomes less about just that one thing that you need to be super passionate about and more so about, I like solving problems and when you see one that has a large market size, then it's also worth the effort.

Chad Kauffman: Yeah. And to add onto that too, I'll give you a little bit of a secret to me, I'm actually not a cat owner and most people find that to be fascinating. I'm highly allergic to actually to cats. I can look at a cat and break out and highs. If I walk into somebody's house, I can tell if they have a cat immediately.

I'm just very allergic to their dandruff. And so for me, I didn't birth the company out of, wow, I'm having this problem with my cat. I like cats. And I love my business, and I love the people that work for us. And I'm passionate about serving and creating the best products for people that own cats.

But actually, I don't have a cat. For me, I oftentimes get asked, how can you be passionate about building a product and running a company, something of a product that you actually don't even use? And I'm like, you have to be passionate about your company. You have to be passionate about what you do.

I'm passionate about our customers. I'm passionate about our employees. I'm not necessarily in love with the product because I don't use the product. I don't have a cat. If I had a cat, I'd probably be in love with the product because we really do, meet a major deficiency and have brought true innovation to a pretty stale category called, cat litter, and cat litter boxes, but it's also the biggest pain point as cat owners that they experience.

A lot of people decide whether they're going to get a cat or not get a cat, based upon, do I really want to manage a litter box. 

James Lacey: Yep, the mess. Wow. That, that's a huge, yeah, that's a huge problem to be solving convenience. I think, yeah, it really is. I think there's, a statistic that says, almost 70 percent of all, online consumption is on marketplaces and the analysis is because of that being convenience.

And so same thing, with solving a very sizable problem. What inspires you or motivates you in just challenging times? You again, it's not probably not just with Kitty Poo Club, but I'm sure you've experienced this over the past years. what would you say to somebody that's, just struggling there?

They're on their last legs. What keeps you going when it gets difficult?

Chad Kauffman: So a few things, one, my faith is really important to me and, and so my relationship with Christ is a big motivating factor and the way I run my business and that and all that I do. Ultimately I feel like, I'm just a steward and I'm here to manage what He's given to me in the best way that I can.

And so I really feel like He's given me gift and skills. And if He has, which I firmly believe He has, then ultimately, I just need to do the best I can and keep open hands and realize that it's all His anyways. And figure out where do we go from here? And hopefully he leads and guides me in that direction.

Secondly, for viewers that don't have a faith, I have a big responsibility in what I do, for all the number of employees that work for us. And so they're a big motivating factor for, why I do what I do. We have a lot of families that are dependent upon Kitty Poo Club for their monthly and weekly income.

And it's a grind and there's easy days and there's hard days, but that's like anything in life, right? Tell me a business, even if you're an employee, you can go work for a company and you're going to have good days and bad days, it's always a grind. You, just have to, you just have to push through.

Entrepreneurship is not for the faint of heart and it's hard work. And there's a reason why, the majority of the world are employees and not employers because it's very hard to do. And, you're signing up for something. That's harder to do than being an employee. And if you want something easier than go work for somebody, if you want something that's hard and you want to change the world and you want to change an industry that you're in and you've got a better mousetrap, start a business and it's highly rewarding.

And, if you're only focused on the bad days, you're never going to make it through because those bad days are going to come. And, and they're going to go and the good days are going to come. And you just have to have the faith and the diligence and, the passion to continue to push through, some of the challenges that you're going to experience on a day in and day out basis.

James Lacey: I think somebody could just go straight ahead and read, the six keywords behind you, and probably get an answer to, to, to what you were saying as well. As we were touching on earlier, but, yeah, persistence, perseverance, and like we said, patience, I think are often undervalued, and, and not realized as to, yeah, how vital they are to be able to, steward a business.

And I think that word steward that you said is, for people that have faith, people that know God, and then people that maybe put their faith in other things, regardless of their faith. Perseverance whilst you, faith is the conviction of things unseen and the, yeah, is that right? 

Chad Kauffman: Yeah. 

James Lacey: And so it's just being so, convicted of something that you don't know is there. And if you do see it, then, that's not, hope or faith. But yeah, so I, I just, I love that. And I know it's true for myself and true for, many others. Do you have a favorite quote or a piece of advice that you've had before?

Chad Kauffman: There's so much a favorite quote. One of the best pieces of advice that I got when I was starting my, first company was actually from a mentor of mine. And he said, Chad, never turn down an opportunity, to meet with somebody. And as you gain success, there's going to be more and more opportunities to spend time with people and people that are competing for your time.

But the thing is, you're, going to be shocked by just taking a phone call or a lunch or a brief meeting with somebody, what opportunities could come from that meeting that you never expect. And so never be too busy that you don't have time to spend with people because some of the best opportunities are going to come from that unexpected meeting or lunch or conversation that you're going to have.

And, my friend, his name's Jeff, and he was spot on. He was a hundred percent right. And so I've lived that motto, in my business career of always looking at opportunities to spend time with people. And it's been true. Some of the best things that I've had happen to me. Have been through somebody I was introduced to some lunch I took, some phone call I had that I didn't have an agenda for or an expectation for, and something really cool came from it. 

I get a lot of opportunities and it would be, easy to say, ah, no, I'm too busy. I'm too focused and I have time to spend with you. And, I just always wonder when I do that, what did I just miss?

James Lacey: I've never heard that before. I have, that is, profound. I'm going to take that and write it down after this, because you usually it's the opposite that you hear. Especially as people, I actually heard somebody the other day who, as he was rising in success, said that he decided that he had to limit as much as possible the time that he spent with people or the opportunities he gave people and start saying “no” more and more.

And, and I thought to myself, yeah, that's I get it, but that's kind of sad. I, and so just, yeah, I think that's wonderful to hear and it feels like a very, not only wise and something that can create opportunities, but also sounds very loving.

Chad Kauffman: Yeah. yeah, I firmly believe I was put on this earth to make a difference in people's lives. And if you don't spend time with people, you can't do that. 

James Lacey: Is there any mistakes that are memorable or that you've experienced in Kitty Poo Club, that, you guys are learning from at the moment or have learned from recently?

Chad Kauffman: Yeah. So one big mistake that I think of, was when COVID happened and, sales were just going straight up, because we do offer such a convenient product and people were at home and, shopping and looking for ways not to go out and public. We really did well, during that time and, that was a blessing. 

The challenging side that came from that was, for those in business, they may, remember this just to, if you're just an average consumer, you may not have realized it as much, but there was also a supply chain crisis that was occurring at the same time, because businesses about supply and demand. And there was so much demand that there was not enough supply coming from overseas on containers. And, some of our, litters are silica gel litters specifically. You can't get those, you can't get that product made actually anywhere else in the world.

China is the only country in the entire world that makes, silica gel. And it's one of our bestselling, litters. And as, the demand was skyrocketing, we got pinched and we did not have enough product coming in. We were getting containers that were shipping late, containers that were stuck on the water, containers that were stuck in port and, we're all of our customers are on subscription. So they get their litter and it's delivered to them every month at the same time.

And, we, literally, we have a 120, 000 square foot facility, which is full about half the time with litter and, we literally were down to just a couple pallets and, of, of the silica gel. And so I had a huge number of customers, at the time, probably, I don't know, 50 or 60,000 customers that were getting that product on a monthly basis, and we didn't have it. 

And, I was very, concerned. I wasn't sure what to do. And, we ended up deciding to, just be very real and transparent with our customers. And so we shipped them a different litter product than what they had asked for. And, we explained to them what happened. We said that this would be a good solution for them until their original product came back.

And if it didn't work for them, to call us or email us, and the product would be completely free. And, surprisingly, I thought, this had the potential to bankrupt the company, right? It was a lot of product going out and I'm just offering to give, 60, 000 customers for the month free product. And I didn't know how they were going to respond, and surprisingly, being open and honest and transparent and letting people understand, what your constraints are, turned out to be a real win for us. And we, heard more, more accolades coming from consumers are just saying we understand it, we get it, thanks for letting us know. Could you ship the, our regular litter, when it comes back in, and we did. 

And I think the learning lesson was, I think companies can have challenges and oftentimes they don't want to be transparent or real with their customers, but realizing that their customers are just people like you and I are, and when somebody is open and upfront and honest with you, to me, that feels a lot better than, not being. And, so we, found that to be just, as you would expect to be treated, we treated our customers like that. And it turned out to be a great success for us. 

James Lacey: It's very refreshing to hear and especially on the side of customers are also just people like, we are, so on either side, you still have people that, have emotions and that have logic and are, thinking.

And yeah, when you, almost communicate as people, whereas I feel like a lot of the time, especially in e-commerce, you can feel like there is, there's no connection. There is just, this blank wall that you sit behind. And from the consumer and from the business owner and, but then, yeah, when you personalize it and you actually have genuine communication that feels real and authentic.

It's amazing, and also, it seems like a common thread of what you've been doing. Shared is just innovation. I know that's not some wild, innovative idea necessarily, but, just being willing to say, okay, you know what, let's, try this. Let's just be as real and transparent, but also this is what we're going to offer.

And then we'll, basically supplement it when it comes back in, then we'll continue as per usual. There's multiple solutions that you could have offered during that time, and it could have gone any which way and yeah, throughout that kind of common thread of innovation seems. Seems pretty, prevalent.

Chad Kauffman: I think we live in a world where people try to hide bad news. Bad news is bad news. I would rather get bad news right out of the gate than to find bad news out way after the fact, and then realize that, somebody is trying to cover it up. And, you look at politics today, you look at the business world, everywhere you see, there's some type of bad news.

It's trying to get, covered up or, communicated in a way where it looks positive, but it's really bad. And it's like bad news is bad news. Just deliver the bad news in a transparent way and let them know what you're doing to work on solving the problem

James Lacey: That is, I was actually going to ask you about how you if you even during that time or different time receive negative feedback or interaction with consumers or, even, on the business end as well, maybe competitors or if there is any. Yeah, how you've how you go about handling negative feedback or interactions, because I think that's something that again, some business owners might need encouragement in, because they're having to learn how to be offended or how they respond.

Chad Kauffman: Yeah, it's like any, relationship or, in the world, right? Like you have people that like you, and you have people that don't like you. And, we have people that didn't like the product or, whatever reason and, and yeah, we get some nasty, customers. every month that, are terribly mean to our customer support team.

However, when I started the company, I really felt extremely strong that customer service was becoming an afterthought in today's business world. most people. get poor customer service more often than they get good customer service. And I read, a book about Zappos, customer service, which was legendary, at the time and probably still is, and how they literally went above and beyond, for all of their customers.

And I was so moved by how they treated their customers and how they became evangelists for the brand that I said, I want to do that same exact thing. And as I've built the company, we have five full-time customer support people, which is a pretty good amount of people for a business of our size.

And, they know the customer is always right. And even when the customer's nasty or mean for whatever reason, we're always responding with love and respect and we're doing what we can to meet the needs of that customer. If it's bad news, it's bad news. If your litter box is delayed by no fault of our own by, our shipping company and it's caught in, wherever California or Nevada and it's supposed to be in California, well that's bad news for the customer, but it's bad news. We're sorry, we feel really bad about that and, we do everything we can to work with our shipping company to get it expedited there. And, what we found is that good customer service doesn't always come down to, just giving a refund or a free product or whatever it is.

Yeah. Really where people feel like customer service breaks down is that they're not getting good communication. And so proactive communication actually solves a lot of challenges. With customers when they actually talk to a real human instead of a voice automated system or an AI system and somebody actually calls them and follows up with them when they said that's what they were going to do. And so those are some of the principles that we're pretty focused on and yeah, we will offer free product, we will comp their shipment, you know when things happen that we're out of our control or you know. Sometimes we screw up, we're humans and things get screwed up and You And so we always look to make it right with the customer, but we're always very proactive in our communication with customers. And we're also very focused on love and respect to our customer base. Without our customers, we don't have a company, customer support’s one of our main pillars.

James Lacey: That is a statement to be remembered, without our customers, we don't have a company. That is so true for every single company. I actually heard, you reminded me of one of Uber's stories where what kind of inspired the design. I think it was something out of, the myth is that it was out of something out of Goldfinger, I think the James Bond movie and, whereas you had the tracking of the Uber car that was going to come pick you up. And apparently the marketing incentive behind it was, if customers at least just know where the car is. It doesn't matter if it's going to take longer. You're not necessarily changing the waiting time.

They just know where it is. So they're not constantly questioning that. It was simply just a removing a block of communication. And so now there was this seeming full transparency, and so it causes the customer or the user to be able to rest and relax and know where their cars is and yeah

Chad Kauffman: That's a great analogy.

James Lacey: I thought it was, you just reminded me of that. I think it's brilliant. Any major roadblocks right now that you guys are experiencing as you scale? I imagine you mean, you start in 2018, right? Come into the end of 2024, I imagine it's, you continuing to grow. Is there anything like wanting to jump to the next level that you're looking at saying, how can we, innovate here?

Chad Kauffman: I'm actually looking at changing some of the, moving more to an omni channel and looking at, moving beyond just D2C direct-to-consumer, but moving into retail. And so we're exploring some of those opportunities, now we have a really good, loyal subscription base and we're continuing to grow our D2C business.

It's just, it's becoming a lot more expensive to acquire customers. As you probably know, and the easy days were 2017, 18, 19, even into 20, when, IOS updated their privacy, everybody in the commerce business saw, a spike in CACs and those CACs, still continue to exist today. And it's pretty hard to, I think it's actually harder today to start an e-commerce company than it was back when I did just because it costs a lot to get customers 

James Lacey: From what I can hear already experiencing, a very high level of engagement, so why not go into where people are and let their eyes come across the product?

Last couple questions, if that's okay. I know no, we're running. sure. Has a 30 minute mark here, but. Just curious, leadership, can be known as, you touched on this being that you're still open to meet with people. And so this is a little bit different than I've heard before, which is, cool.

But leadership can be a lonely place at times. Is there anything that you would suggest to people that are experiencing that they're in similar roles, CEO, founder, et cetera? And they find themselves getting isolated.

Chad Kauffman: Yeah. Find, find a group or a network of people that are in similar positions to yourself.

And so I'm actually very involved in a, or a global organization called Vistage. And Vistage describes itself as a private advisory board for CEOs and executives. And, and so I have a group of 15 other men and women that are all founders or CEOs of larger companies. And we meet together, one full day a month.

And we discuss business challenges, going back to an earlier comment that I made is that, businesses really are pretty much the same. It's just a different product and service, so regardless of one guy in my business is producing steel and I'm producing cat litter boxes. We still have similar challenges when it comes to leadership, how to motivate employees, how to deal with insurance challenges, health insurance, escalating costs of, of that type of stuff to finance and accounting to marketing to whatever.

And so we're constantly issue processing what we're experiencing in our business. And we have a very methodical way of doing that. And so I have a group of 15 other men or women that I speak to, really on a weekly basis, we meet as a group once per month, but it keeps it very, it keeps it from getting lonely at the top. Because I have other people that I can are successful in their fields that I can bounce ideas and challenges and also have a high level of confidentiality.

And whether it's a YPO or a Vestige or an entrepreneur group in someone's community, find somebody else that is operating at your level and begin to build some trust along with some transparency, because it's hard to build trust without transparency. And you need to have somebody that you can, that you can, really sync up with

James Lacey: The value of being able to bounce off people as well. Sounds like it's not only protecting you from being isolated but also adding immense value to one another. It's a win-win there. 

Chad Kauffman: Yeah, it is. 

James Lacey: Has there been a significant mentor? Or role model. And I know you mentioned a mentor earlier on, was connected to your favorite quote, but anybody significant that you look up to that has really impacted your life, especially in your business journey?

Chad Kauffman: Yeah, I can think of a whole handful of people. One would be my dad. He was a corporate executive and, we've started a few businesses together, Kitty Poo Club being one of them. And, he's taught me a lot about business and life, and growing up and has had a huge, impact on my life.

I've had some other businessmen, entrepreneurs that have helped me, refine my craft. I was a born, I was, I like to pay. I was a born entrepreneur. I started my first business in fifth grade, sixth and sixth, seventh and eighth, ninth or fourth in high school, another one in college, and then just kept going from there.

So I've always liked the challenge of being able to do my own thing and, and look for opportunities. So I'd say, I started meeting with people when I was in fifth grade that helped me get my business going. My dad being one of them and executive friends of his. And so I've just been a lifelong learner.

I don't, I'm not the smartest guy in the room. I'm the first to admit it. And I never hoped to be, there's always somebody that's further ahead of you in life in some area. And so I'm just a constant learner and that's why I say, I look to meet with as many people as I can because I think no matter that person's expertise or lack of expertise, I think we can all learn something from someone. 

James Lacey: I love that. Very last question. One of our favorites, given the name of the fulfilled podcast and of fulfillment.com, what does real, fulfillment mean to you?

Chad Kauffman: Oh, good question. I think it's real fulfillment means, delivering a product and service from the beginning, all the way through the end journey of the customer. And so that can be from, what is it like for the customer when they first come to your website and experience your company for the very first time to taking them on the journey of educating them on why they need your product or service to manufacturing that product or, delivering that service, through the delivery process and then the whole customer experience. And, being able to meet those needs and expectations of the customer. So I think it's an entire journey. It's not just simply shipping a product to a customer. I really think it goes all the way back to what does it look like when they come to your website for the very first time and experience what your company does.

James Lacey: I've never heard that before. I'm actually entailing the yeah, no, I haven't and I haven't thought about it like that, but it makes that makes total sense. Just the entire customer journey really is fulfilling. Yeah, I love it. 

Chad, thank you so much for your time. I know we went over a little bit. I really appreciate you just sharing your wisdom and I know it's going to be extremely valuable to many people as it is myself.

Thank you for jumping on the Fulfilled Podcast. Is there anything else you would like to share? And also, where can people find out more about yourself and or Kitty Poo Club?

Chad Kauffman: Sure. You can look, me up on LinkedIn, it's just Chad Kaufman forward slash Chad Kaufman. And, you can check out our website at kittypooclub.com. If you have a cat, I think we have the best litter solution in the market today. 

And, I would also add, I would probably just conclude by giving entrepreneurs and people listening, to this podcast, continue to build in your people. Some of the greatest advocates you have in your business or the people that work for you and, I've mentioned a couple times having the margin to spend with people.

A lot of that margin comes because, I have a high level of trust for the people, they work with me and, I have a good leadership team and they do an incredible job, running the business. And it allows me the freedom to be the innovator, the visionary, and spend time looking for what's next and so trust your people, empower them.

I've never been successful, and having a micromanager mentality. I think we should all be macro manager. And, if you can't macro managers, manage somebody, then I think you've probably hired the wrong person. And hopefully, you can hire people that are better than you and allow yourself to be freed up to go do the things that you're called to do.

James Lacey: That's, awesome. I want to cheekily add, ask one question with that. How would you define the difference between micro and macro managing someone? What would be some like key takeaways that someone could understand so they can go ahead and implement that?

Chad Kauffman: Yeah, so great question. I always think of macro a little bit like an airplane.

I think of macro being the 30,000 , 36,000 foot view. And I always try to at least with my team be clear on what we're doing. Why we're doing it and allow them to figure out how to do it. And the how is typically where micromanagers come in. And they start to try to manage what that person's doing down to the very details.

I'm not a detail-oriented person. I know that I'm not. I've always said that. I don't like getting into the details. I like focusing at that 36, 000-foot view, and I like working with people that can figure out how to get from A to B without me telling them how to do it. I don't want to get into the how I want to get into here's what we're doing, here's where we're going. You guys figure it out. And most of the time when I've tried to get into the details, to any great degree, not saying that not ever in the weeds, but most of the time I'm not. And, more often than not, I probably screw things up. And, create more inefficiencies than efficiencies.

And so I always encourage leaders, to hire the right people, that you can, trust. And if you can trust them, then you need to empower them. And, oftentimes I found that I get better results and allow me to focus on the things that I'm good at and allow them to focus on the things that they're good at.

James Lacey: That's awesome. Chad, thank you so much for sharing. Thank you for your time

Chad Kauffman: Hey, thanks James! Pleasure being on here. Nice meeting you.

James Lacey: And, yeah, that is it for today's Fulfilled podcast episode. We'll be back soon. Appreciate you listening.

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