Reno Rollé: There will be challenges. There will be doubters. There will be hiccups and problems, but we overcome them in that process of being dedicated.  

James Lacey: Our guest Reno Rollé co-founder of Boku International is a true innovator in the world of superfoods, a globally recognized brand known for its organic kosher and vegan offerings. Reno's journey in wellness and business is truly one of a kind. Stay tuned for his incredible story.

Reno Rollé: We're a family-owned business. I've been at it now for close to 20 years, we're a superfood company. We were introduced to superfoods many years ago. Actually, our son, Reno Jr. was a small child and was labeled attention deficit by his school system, which was a little bit scary because they wanted to put him on a prescription drug. 

At the time he was, I think six years old and my wife Lynn, comes from generations of family farming. We've always looked to nature. We're not, you know, really much for prescription drugs. So we kind of backed out of the room. This again is back in 1995. We consulted a naturopath who said, you should consider superfoods.

We're seeing some really interesting studies, data on how some of these algae and different of these superfood constituents can really help with cognition, brain function, focus, all this kind of stuff. Of course, at that time, we hadn't even heard the term superfood. We had no idea what a superfood was, but, we ended up finding one, a blend out in California.

Dr. Schultz, had it shipped to the house and at first I have to be honest, it didn't taste great. It reminded me a bit of, like fish food, so it was kind of hard to choke down, but you know, Lynn was able to hide it and mix it in orange juice and different juices and we got the kids to drink it.

And frankly, it just changed our lives. The transformation was remarkable. We were accosted by Reno Jr.'s teacher who was raving about how his grades, his behavior were improving, and how great the drugs must be working. Lynn and I looked at each other and said, there's something going on here clearly because he's not taking any drugs.

And that's when we sort of connected the dots. Which really ignited a passion in us. Once we were impacted the way we were by some of these superfoods and the way they made us feel the way they transformed our bodies, our wellness, we just set out on a journey to learn more and discover. And that led to 2003, I had taken the helm of a very big infomercial company, direct response, television marketing company that at the time was based in Bradford, England and, myself and the chairman, through a rather crazy twist and turn a series of events ended up co-creating what became a New York Times number one best-selling book. 

Incredibly successful book in 2005. The only book in the world that outsold us was Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince. We were very successful with that book and on the heels of that success, Lynn and I huddled up and said, look, now's the time, we had made some money, let's get together here and, do, what we've been dreaming of doing for quite some time, which was to create the world's greatest superfood blend. And, that's what we did. We launched Boku back in 2007 and we've been sort of organically growing the business since then.

James Lacey: That is incredible. This is a space that I am very much an advocate for and also fascinated with. So selfishly I'm loving this, but, what is out of curiosity, what was the gap between, you having that experience, you guys finding some stuff, making it at home and then experiencing what you had, especially for your son.

But then also it sounds like there was a, it's not like you're like, wow, we need to like, dive in right now and make a product out of this and get it out and sell it. It was almost like you knew how valuable it was. You knew the impact it had on your life, but then you also had to go, off and work and, take a big role in a new company and experience what you did.

And so I'm guessing there was a period of time there before you were able to come back in. And I'm just, I know for some people, the patience aspec of getting to something is quite challenging. And so it sounds like I might be wrong, but it sounds like you had an experience with that.

Reno Rollé: We didn't know anything about superfoods. So we had no idea that a plant, a powdered plant could have such a dramatic impact on the way you feel and then eventually on the way you look. So this to us was incredibly exciting and just fascinating because there was a whole world of these superfoods that existed and we had no knowledge of. So it really began with just reading, you know going on the internet studying and then purchasing ingredients we'd learn about Spirulina, Chlorella. We would learn about these different functional mushrooms and so you know, in the early days, it was really hard to find these ingredients, but we would go out and source the ingredients and then bring them home and try them.

Like it was a lot of trial and error. Lynn and I both, but especially me, I take part in this. It's a week-long intensive. It's like an exercise retreat. It's called the Ashram in Southern California, and it's really, it's a week of focused nutrition where you consume less than 2000 calories a day of pure plant-based organic superfoods.

You're drinking pure water, no caffeine, there are no computers, no cell phones. You do about three hours of yoga, hour and a half in the morning, hour and a half in the evening. But during this week-long intensive, I mean, the transformation that occurs in terms of you removing toxins from your body, it's really one of the hardest things you'll do, because it's not something you want to do.

You're kind of just following orders and marching along. And I tell people, you don't do it for you, you do it for yourself. But what I would do is take these different superfoods. People thought I was crazy. I'd have these green powders, brown powders, different blends that I'd create on my own. And I would mix them in water to sort of reanimate the ingredients and then drink it down and then go off on these day-long hikes.

And, there's no better way to really experience something and answer questions than to go out and do it on your own. And when you feel the difference that these fuels, that's where I learned that really food is fuel. The way that they can change your body and its performance and the things you learn about how capable you are to push past the point where you're comfortable and go ahead and really dive into that discomfort. And you shock yourself because you want to quit. I'm telling you, there are times with every step when you think this is the last one, but you just stay in the moment, you stay focused. And then next thing you know, it's 10 and a half miles later, you've climbed straight uphill and achieved these unbelievable elevation gains.

It really ignites again, this excitement within you that, wow, I am capable of a lot more, but it's stuff like that I would do to learn about the power of these superfoods again, not driven by the opportunity to start a business, just purely addressing my innate curiosity. But the effects, the things I learned were so powerful.

That's when we just, it's you can't hold onto it. If you're like us, you really want to share. And that's where the idea came that we really should take this category to the next level, create a product that will obsolete everything that's come before it and introduce the world to a product like Boku, and that's what we did.

James Lacey: I imagine there are people in a similar position that have an idea and they've been diving into research because they've experienced something, whatever category or industry that might be in. What is the process or what would you say to somebody either from a perspective?

And you touched on this just then, you want to quit at times, when you're hiking 10 miles daily, but in same in business and same in diving into something you talked about trial and error, et cetera. What would you say to somebody in the endurance, the necessity of just keeping going, and, getting to the point of finding that either product market fit or whatever you'd like to call it.

Reno Rollé: It almost happens automatically in the process. I mean, if in fact you are passionate about something, they say “conceive it, believe it, achieve it”, right? If you have the idea and you believe it, you really believe in it and that could be a quick process or a long process, depending on the people, the person. But once you get to a point where you've vetted it out, you've talked to all your friends, you've done your gut checks and you really believe that what you want to do makes sense, then it becomes a passion.

You become excited about it and you just have to keep feeding that and staying committed. It's about being committed. It's about being dedicated. And then, you know, your passion will ultimately form your purpose. And that's a place that we should all aspire to because it's an amazing feeling. It's one of my favorite feelings. And when you're there, it's almost like you don't even know how to spell quit. You know it, because what you were envisioning in your way of thinking and in your process, it's already happened to anyone that's an entrepreneur, a creator, artist, a dreamer, anyone that's ever invented to them, to us, it's almost hard to explain, but people will often doubt your vision.

They'll question it. And it can be a very difficult exercise because to us. It's so real. It's almost already happened. And that's how it is for me. And when you're on that path and, again, your passion is there, your belief is there, your dedication, your commitment, it's unwavering, you're just, quitting is not even an option.

So you just kind of stick with it. And then you learn that there will be challenges. There will be doubters, there will be hiccups and problems, but we overcome them in that process of being dedicated. You learn that they aren't impossible obstacles. They're there for a reason.

You trip up, they are stumbling blocks per se, but if you do the right thing and you don't back down and you're not afraid and you really do maintain that belief, you overcome them. The stumbling blocks become stepping stones if you will. I don't know that there's a direct lesson or tip, a shortcut to how to stay with it and never quit.

But I think again, if you follow the process, it almost happens naturally or not. It's not for everyone, it's a tough world. People will tell you starting and running a business may be the hardest thing you'll ever attempt to do. People that are really, good at it, it's like anything else. 

They make it look easy. It's like watching the NBA guys, watching the guys in the NFL, some of these acrobatic athletic movements that, they just make it look so easy. I can tell you the same thing could be said for entrepreneur pursuits.

I mean, it's not a layup. It's not super simple, but if you stick with it and you have something that makes sense and you really believe in it, anything's possible.

James Lacey: I've never heard, funnily enough, I've never heard or thought about the connection between how professional athletes make it look easy and the same way that successful entrepreneurs, also often make it look easy.

And that's just unlocked an understanding for me actually. And just yeah, there is that same, cause I know when I sit down, I'll watch basketball, I watched a game of tennis, whatever it is. I'm like, Oh, I can do that. Like I was, I was okay in high school or whatever. And I'm like, yeah, I could go do that's not that hard. And you get on the court again, Oh, I forgot. I missed eight out of 10 shots or whatever.

Reno Rollé: You know what it is, what they don't show you, you watch the guy dunk the basketball, from the foul line or whatever, some crazy, unbelievable acrobatic move. And you see that and it's wonderful, it's entertaining. What you don't see is the hours and hours of practice and when they fall and how bad it hurts and all that, you know what I mean? And, but it's that it's the same with the business, with, anything, with raising children. You see a happy parent with a well-behaved kid. And you think, wow, that guy's really got it together. And what you don't see is what's happening behind the scenes and all the work it takes to get there. So I don't think it's much different, just again, be creative enough to come up with something.

I like to say that, in that process, trying to come up with ideas for business. It really helps to put, take a holistic approach where it's not just about making the money. Okay, of course, it's about making money. You have to make money to be successful. But what I've learned is if your mission, your purpose, or your cause, if it, aligns with benefiting others, if it's not just about how it can help you, like in our superfood business, we pursued this business because we wanted to make a positive difference for other people, similar to the positive difference superfoods made for our family. And so our, mission statement is to positively impact as many people as possible with the healing power of organic superfood. And I really think because my whole life as an entrepreneur, it really wasn't about that.

It's like, how much can I buy it for, what can I sell it for? How much do I get to keep? Where's the money? It was always, where's the shortcut to the cash register? But what I found is, that I really believe that the quality of a mission where you include the opportunity to make a positive difference for as many people, as many things as you can. 

I think will, really shape your mission in such a way or create, form the fabric of a quality enterprise, something where you can lead with consciousness, with morals, with ethics, the kinds of things that we see sorely lacking in leadership now. And in business leadership, political leadership, it seems like it's all about the money. And of course, again, it takes money to eat. It takes money, we need money, but if we can just balance that drive for earning money with the opportunity to make a positive difference and just maintain even that little bit of awareness, honestly, in my opinion, it will make a huge difference in determining, just how successful you'll be.

James Lacey: I love that. I heard somebody say not too long ago that value is the greatest asset. If you're selling value, you will always have customers and, it's what in whatever category.

And so I think I, what I'm hearing as well as like when you're, why is bigger than the bottom line. You are inevitably going to be providing value because you care so much and you become an expert in your craft and you provide value. And then it's a question of, yeah, like you said, you have to make money to succeed and then to further expand, et cetera.

That's brilliant. It made me think of, what you were just sharing then. And before it made me think of a sore as the entrepreneurial Cody Sanchez that I've seen online. I don't know if you've seen her around, but she's become big for buying small businesses, and, she has this thing that I've seen her saying, which is choose your hard.

And it's just a question of everything's hard. Our life is hard, but just choose your hard. And so it's like when you work out, when you don't feel like it, or all of the above. And I think you sound like you're a very good model for that. You're taking those weeks, that week, a year and you're choosing your hard and, it's the same thing with the endurance, that you have to build a business, which has such a, such a powerful, why it's changing people's lives, giving them a superfood. And is there an aspect of faith that leads your decision-making? Is that or, it sounds like you've had to have faith in general, just like believing the unseen. But yeah, do you, does faith play a part in your decision-making?

Reno Rollé: Oh my goodness, so much and it always did, but the longer you stay at it, it's pretty much like anything else. You can come into business, believing in Christ and maintaining faith.

Or you can get to a point where you need to find it. And you know, that happens to a lot of people, where all of a sudden it's like, Oh my goodness, how terrible is this? Things are so difficult, things are so hard. And you find Christ, you figure out that, by letting Christ into your heart, believing in Jesus Christ, and praying for forgiveness because no one's perfect, and then just creating that space for growth, and to maintain your faith. Which again, it's like finding your hard, the thing about, if I heard you correctly, finding the hard as in the difficult, it also prepares you for the fact that it will come, so you have that mindset because, often we become complacent.

We think that we're just going to glide through and this is God's way, but in reality, there's have to be ups and downs, there have to be challenges, there have to be failures in order for us to learn. So to prepare for that, and then I feel like, keeping faith is a big part of that. Challenges will come, but you keep your faith.

It's easy to be faithful when everything's wonderful, right? I have faith that it'll stay this way, but it won't. It just won't, that's not normal life and there will be ups and downs. So yeah, knowing that the world is so fraught with challenges and that there will be setbacks and that there are bad people out there and, trust me, they're lurking around every corner.

And so it's, vitally important to keep the faith, not only to stay strong and be in a position to constantly help others, but also, in order to stay strong and to help yourself out of these inevitable, challenges.

James Lacey: Is there a favorite quote or any advice you've had from a mentor before that kind of comes to your mind? It's connected slightly to the past question, but yeah.

Reno Rollé: There's so many, but I have to, if you're asking the question, I have to think of my uncle Sonny and he was a pretty simple guy, but a very smart man. And he said “nothing beats a failure, but a try”. And, I often reflect on that, and it really is just about maintaining that sense of knowingness and belief and faith.

And, I see that's the theme of this show here, and a lot of it comes to faith is so powerful. Courage, just to have the courage to maintain the faith and the belief in the face of what could be adversity, ridicule, doubt, all these things that it's so easy to cast upon other people, and you will undoubtedly be showered in it.

If you have anything as unique, a unique pair of shoes, let alone a unique idea or concept for business. So yeah, I think just get out there and give it a try. Don't be afraid to fail. Don't be afraid of the inevitable challenges or the setbacks. They're going to come, but they're, if you, can just get your head around the fact that they're just a necessary part of the process and you shouldn't let them devastate you or cripple you or freeze you, any of that. You just got to just keep it moving.

James Lacey: That's that is awesome. I've actually never, I've never heard that phrase and I love it. I'm going to remember it and probably tell them. 

Reno Rollé: It’s gonna make my uncle Sonny very happy. Nothing beats a failure, but a try, or like a try. 

James Lacey: I love that.

Reno Rollé: You know, just give it a try.

James Lacey: Do you have any advice to people on how they handle negative feedback?

Reno Rollé: There's once again, it comes with time and practice and no one likes to be rejected. That's just no one. You just, you want to get a yes, you want to get a smile. No one likes to smile at somebody else or wave and then they don't wave back.

Those little things hurt, right? They just do because we're humans. And, you eventually maybe you get hardened to it or softene by it. But one thing I'll always recall is in like really basic sales training, I remembered I think I was like closing it like 20%.

So one in five people would say yes and buy the product. And if I made that sale, I would make a hundred dollars. So I remember being taught that, when someone says no, if you have to talk to five people to get a yes, then you should thank them for the no, because you're getting closer to the yes.

And so it's just a bit of small training that really helps me because again, I'm very sensitive. Like many of us, we don't want to be told no, we don't want to be rejected, but hey, if you're going to make a sale on every five attempts and every sale’s worth a hundred bucks. So every no must be worth 20. So you say, someone says no to you, don't be hurt, say thank you and put an imaginary 20 bill in your pocket and walk away. Little things like that can really go a long way

James Lacey: Power of perspective. That is awesome. 

Reno Rollé: Yeah, exactly. Good one. Yeah. Power of perspective. How you decide to interpret what just happened or what was just said, and you're in control of that, right?

James Lacey: Yep.

Reno Rollé: No one else. So that is powerful. 

James Lacey: That's life-changing. I think for so many that's, yeah, I love that. Leadership, it can often be quite a lonely place. You step into business, co-founder, and you've experienced entrepreneur as well. It can become maybe hard to, or it can somewhat become isolated, I think sometimes. Is there any, hacks that you found along the way to, stay outdoors? I have, an idea of how you might answer this, but yeah, just as you grow in leadership, any, any ideas or, advice on how just how to stay connected to the outside world.

Reno Rollé: Mentors, I think if I understand the question, reaching out when you need a little bit of guidance or uplifting, it can be hard.

And, fortunately for me throughout my entire career, I've had my wife, and we've been essentially partners, throughout the process. And so having that, a partner, a built-in support system because again, there will be times where it just be gut-wrenching. It's really, it can be really, hard when you're dealing with matters of finance and you have bills and people that rely upon you for their livelihood.

And so I, just recommend, yeah, figuring out whatever you need to do to de-stress if it's meditating and whatever that means to you. For me, it's not necessarily sitting down with my legs crossed and palms open. I do understand that, I love yoga. But whatever your exercise, something positive, where you can externalize where you can vent, go out and aspirate, run if it's running, if it's meditating, if it's yoga, if it's hiking, if it's just sitting on a beach somewhere, it's to me, finding that time for yourself, which is so vitally important and not selfish at all.

In fact, I often tell people, my children, look, we've all been on the airplane. When the flight attendant announces that, in the unlikely event that there's a loss of cabin pressure, put that mask that falls out of the ceiling on your face first. Now, by doing that, it's not selfish.

You're taking care of yourself so that you're there to help others. If you start fumbling around with that mass to help children or someone else, and then you pass out, they're done. So to me, it's a really good lesson in life that you need to make that space, that time for yourself and whatever that means.

Going out and being by the ocean, taking a hike, sitting someplace quiet, whatever that is that you can do for yourself to help you get through those difficult times and often again, it's, having the wherewithal, the presence of mind to reach out and ask for help. There's a great book I read very early on called The Master Key to Riches, Napoleon Hill.

And there's a section in that book that talks about climbing the ladder of success, and we all want to do it. We want to get higher than we are. But it teaches us that we should climb with both hands reaching outward. One hand should reach up for assistance, the help of someone higher up on the ladder. They want to help. 

Also, your other hand should be reaching down because there's always going to be someone lower on that ladder than you, that's in your position. So if you reach up looking for help when you need it, but at the same time you're reaching down to give someone else a boost. To me, that's that balanced approach.

So don't, be afraid to reach out. There are people out there that have been through what you're going through. And I've learned this and I'm not a guy that asked for help very easily. So it can be tricky. The ego gets in the way than the rest of it. But boy, there's a certain divinity.

There's a really good feeling that you get when you need help and you get it because it's a similar feeling when someone else needs help and you give it. There's a process there and it's reciprocal and we shouldn't really avoid either side of that equation in my opinion.

James Lacey: That's beautiful. I also love the Oxygen mask analogy as well. That's yeah, both of those. That's really, great wisdom. Is there anything I know where we're slowly wrapping up here? And I wanted to touch on a couple of last things. One being, is there anything specific that is next for Boku or that you're excited about? And on the flip side to that, are there any roadblocks right now that you guys are experiencing trying to scale?

Reno Rollé: Yeah, great questions. The future is incredibly exciting for us. As you may know, after close to 20 years in business, we opened our first superfood-infused cafe in collaboration with both Tesla and Electrify America.

So we have this beautiful headquarters in Ojai, California, and we have level three DC fast chargers right in the parking lot. And it's all based on the premise of charge your car, charge your body. So we have clean fuel for transport, clean fuel for humans. So that cafe did very well. And we are in the process now, as I mentioned earlier of developing our second, superfood cafe out here in Pinehurst, North Carolina.

This will be even bigger and better. We're going to have a Boku or Cafe Boku in the morning with superfood-infused coffees and smoothies and foods. And then in the afternoon, we'll transition to a beautiful pizzeria where we're gonna offer next-level, I mean, incredible pizza. Then we have a cocktail bar, beer garden.

We're gonna be offering a superfood-infused beer and cocktail because we have a whole range. Of superfood concentrates, these beautiful functional tonics. So the future is incredibly bright. We're also launching our superhuman, complete superfood meal replacement. Now, this is the product of close to 20 years of leading the industry on the superfood side and what we've learned.

So basically everything we've learned over the past 20 years is in one bag now. So you're going to get your greens, your sprouts, your berries, your fruits, blend of 20 different functional mushrooms, close to 30 grams of plant-based protein, all in one scoop! That tastes frankly like what's left in the bottom of a bowl of Lucky Charms, breakfast cereal.

It's absolutely delicious. And because the base is organic coconut milk powder, you just need to add water and ice and you get this thick, creamy, delicious smoothie that's ridiculously nutrient-dense. So we'll be launching our superhuman first in Canada. We'll follow it up here with a launch in the U.S.

So that's super exciting. And then to the point of challenges or hurdles, yeah, like we were talking about early earlier, they're going to come, they're a real part of business. And while we're celebrating this unbelievable opportunity on one hand, we're mired in litigation.

We've been in a lawsuit for two and a half years with billionaire, oligarchs. And that's not fun. There will be the hard. You know that you have to choose because there's no choosing, no hard, that's not life. You have to choose it. It's going to happen. And then you have the beautiful growth, the opportunities, the blessings, the abundance, the success that comes from your faith, your determination, your persistence, your effort, and those of your team members.

So that's business in a nutshell. I think a lot of people unfortunately go into it thinking. Again, it's all going to be dunks. It's going to be these spectacular, receptions on the sideline with all the acrobatics and that it's somehow easy. It's not, it's beautiful, it's unbelievable. It's definitely worth celebrating and it will come if you don't quit, but it's not easy.

James Lacey: I think you really did summarize pretty well in about 30 minutes. The life of an entrepreneur, that like you just touched on that. This has felt like a journey of the life of the entrepreneur is really cool.

I just want to wrap up in our kind of final and favorite question to ask, connect to the name of the podcast. What does real fulfillment mean to you?

Reno Rollé: It's a great question. First, having the wherewithal, the courage to set goals, expectations, and then knowing that in that process, again, for me, there's something in it for someone other than just yourself.

And then when it happens and you do achieve that particular goal or objective and everyone benefits, where you can see multiple people celebrating the achievement, that's true fulfillment. When again, the benefit is substantial and truly impacts more than just yourself.

James Lacey: That's beautiful. Reno, thank you so much for your time. I want to make sure that people know what to find out more about Boku and yourself if they want to follow along, if they want to buy some of the superfoods. Yeah, let me know what, where can we find more about Boku?

Reno Rollé: Thank you, James. Hey, I really enjoyed talking to you, buddy. I love doing these things, I love sharing stories and, hopefully uplifting people, giving them some guidance and direction because I know it's a world where boy, it can get dark and scary, but you do need to hang in there. And sometimes just little messages, of inspiration can go a long way. So thank you very much for the opportunity. And, let's stay in touch.

James Lacey: That sounds amazing. Thank you so much, Reno. I appreciate your time. 

Reno Rollé: All right. All right, James. All the best. Thank you.

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